Yes, Tessa Watt's book is excellent - didn't know about her subsequent career path! Doubtless you'll be familiar with Angel McShane's work on ballads; e.g.
And the point about 'popular' is also really interesting. I've been doing some reading recently about the ways in which the category of 'the people' (not synonymous, I know) was constructed by certain historians for political and ideological reasons in the 1930s; then criticised by later generations who had their own agendas. Which is a roundabout way of saying that if you tried to define 'popular' and 'the people' of early modern England today I'd expect that a similar process might happen down the line.
Yes, Angela McShane's work is great. Cheap print, including ballads and news, has been a really vital field in the last decade or two!
How interesting about "the people" and the historiography of the 1930s. Yes, I agree. It's always a contested category, isn't it? Including in our period itself (e.g. in the Civil War, including for Milton).
On an unrelated topic, I was thinking of your work because I was rereading Aubrey and came across this remark about Sir William Davenant: "His private opinion was that Religion at last,—e.g. a hundred yeares hence,—would come to settlement, and that in a kind of ingeniose Quakerisme."
On 'the people' I've been reading A.L. Morton's 'A People's History of England' (1938), which is sometimes seen as a forerunner of Howard Zinn's 'A People's History of the United States' (1980).
Fascinating – this introduction could end up sidetracking my current reading! The first part made me think of the transition from Geoffrey of Monmouth's "Historia Regum Britanniae" (1137) to Robert Wace's "Brut" (1155) and eventually to Laȝamon's "Brut" (1189-1205?). The first is in Latin, the second is a translation of the first in Anglo-Norman, the third a translation of the second in Middle English. Geoffrey claims authority by stating that he's translating a book provided by his bishop (even though most of his "history" is original fiction). Wace claims authority by mentioning Geoffrey. Interestingly, Laȝamon mentions his written sources (most of the time he's simply translating Wace) but also admits using oral sources (popular legends circulating). That's already a first step in the slow shift of attitude in the perception and use of written vs oral traditions, and in the definition and debate of elite vs popular.
I loved this short post--and just think you ought to have extended the third footnote to include the entirety of that unsung masterpiece, "Nobody Loves Me." It has great cumulative force. For anyone interested, here it is (from the invaluable English Broadside Ballad Archive): https://ebba.english.ucsb.edu/ballad/20202/xml
This makes me want to read Watt’s book, I certainly don’t have the time but it would be better for me than scrolling about on the internet.
It also makes me think about Hobsbawm’s charming book on jazz where iirc he maintains that true popular music (by which he seems to mean the sort of ballad Lou Killen sang) emerges from genuine, pre-industrial folk culture. Capitalism transforms it into kitsch, generally when the peasants move to the city. Jazz is folk music that survives the move to the city with its authenticity intact. A beautiful fable...
Yes, Tessa Watt's book is excellent - didn't know about her subsequent career path! Doubtless you'll be familiar with Angel McShane's work on ballads; e.g.
https://www.dhi.ac.uk/projects/100ballads/
And the point about 'popular' is also really interesting. I've been doing some reading recently about the ways in which the category of 'the people' (not synonymous, I know) was constructed by certain historians for political and ideological reasons in the 1930s; then criticised by later generations who had their own agendas. Which is a roundabout way of saying that if you tried to define 'popular' and 'the people' of early modern England today I'd expect that a similar process might happen down the line.
Yes, Angela McShane's work is great. Cheap print, including ballads and news, has been a really vital field in the last decade or two!
How interesting about "the people" and the historiography of the 1930s. Yes, I agree. It's always a contested category, isn't it? Including in our period itself (e.g. in the Civil War, including for Milton).
On an unrelated topic, I was thinking of your work because I was rereading Aubrey and came across this remark about Sir William Davenant: "His private opinion was that Religion at last,—e.g. a hundred yeares hence,—would come to settlement, and that in a kind of ingeniose Quakerisme."
On 'the people' I've been reading A.L. Morton's 'A People's History of England' (1938), which is sometimes seen as a forerunner of Howard Zinn's 'A People's History of the United States' (1980).
And thanks for the Aubrey reference!
Fascinating – this introduction could end up sidetracking my current reading! The first part made me think of the transition from Geoffrey of Monmouth's "Historia Regum Britanniae" (1137) to Robert Wace's "Brut" (1155) and eventually to Laȝamon's "Brut" (1189-1205?). The first is in Latin, the second is a translation of the first in Anglo-Norman, the third a translation of the second in Middle English. Geoffrey claims authority by stating that he's translating a book provided by his bishop (even though most of his "history" is original fiction). Wace claims authority by mentioning Geoffrey. Interestingly, Laȝamon mentions his written sources (most of the time he's simply translating Wace) but also admits using oral sources (popular legends circulating). That's already a first step in the slow shift of attitude in the perception and use of written vs oral traditions, and in the definition and debate of elite vs popular.
I loved this short post--and just think you ought to have extended the third footnote to include the entirety of that unsung masterpiece, "Nobody Loves Me." It has great cumulative force. For anyone interested, here it is (from the invaluable English Broadside Ballad Archive): https://ebba.english.ucsb.edu/ballad/20202/xml
This makes me want to read Watt’s book, I certainly don’t have the time but it would be better for me than scrolling about on the internet.
It also makes me think about Hobsbawm’s charming book on jazz where iirc he maintains that true popular music (by which he seems to mean the sort of ballad Lou Killen sang) emerges from genuine, pre-industrial folk culture. Capitalism transforms it into kitsch, generally when the peasants move to the city. Jazz is folk music that survives the move to the city with its authenticity intact. A beautiful fable...